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Looking for record leads for ZYLBERMAN from 1850s-1860s in Wyszkow in Poland/Russia #poland #russia


Debbie Terman
 

Hello all,

I am trying to connect 3 branches of ZILBERMAN/ZYLBERMAN ancestors who were all from Wyszkow & surrounding area in Russia/Poland in mid to late 1800s.
My theory is that these 3 people were siblings:
Abram Josek (Yosev) ZILBERMAN
Chawa Zylberman DYBNER
Leiba Rejza Zilberman RUBIN
but I haven't been able to prove or disprove it.
Here is what I know:
Leiba was born early in 1860, calculated from her age as listed in her children's birth records. Her parents were Ajzyk ZILBERMAN & Chaja Sura SOKOL. Leiba had a twin brother Lejzor Litman and an older brother Zelek, born c. 1858 as calculated from his marriage record. (There are also 2 younger siblings who I found, with a 6 year gap between the twins & the next one.) By using parent ages in the marriage records, I estimate that Ajzyk was born in 1816 & Chaja Sura in 1824. This would mean that their oldest child I've found (Zelek) was born when Ajzyk was 41 and Chaja Sura was 33. That would have been very old to start having children during that time (and very old for my family).
Chawa was born between 1850 & 1854, calculated from her age as listed in her children's birth records. There are discrepancies in her age listings, which is why a range. She was my gg-grandmother. Because she was born and married before the earliest Wyszkow records posted on JRI-Poland (which start 1874), I cannot locate her records and do not know her parents' names. She would fit in as an older sibling to Zelek and Leiba based on the timing.
Abram Josek was born between 1861 & 1864, again calculated from children's birth records with age discrepancies. I don't know his parents' names, though he would fit in the 6-year gap mentioned above.
As far as I know, none of these people came to the US, but they all had at least one child who did, and I am able to find information on the US side about those who immigrated.
My uncle z"l, who passed away last summer, had a vague recollection that Leiba's children & Abram Josek's children were first cousins to Chawa's daughter (my great-grandmother & his grandmother), which would fit with the 3 ancestors above being siblings. However, a vague recollection is not a proof.
Can anyone guide me to where I can look for information from the 1850-1865 period in Wyszkow to help me figure this out?
Thanks in advance.

Debbie Cohn Terman
Newton MA, USA


Aaron Slotnik
 

Hello Debbie,

It may be the case, perhaps even likely, that the 'proof' you're seeking will not be forthcoming.  In these cases, as genealogists we need to make a determination based on an exhaustive search of the available records and the weight of the evidence.  Since vital records do not exist for the time period you're seeking, we need to look for substitutes.  For Wyszkow, it appears that marriage alegata are available which sometimes include birth or other supplemental records for the parties in the marriage.  If you can find those for the people in question, they may provide additional information.

If you haven't already, you should try to locate the death records for these presumed siblings as those may have their parents' names.  Sometimes death records of parents will name the children or at least give the number of living children--it appears that Ajzyk died in 1883 and Chaja Sura in 1884 so you should get those records translated if you haven't already.

In cases like these, I've also used Ashkenazic naming traditions to substantiate a theory of shared ancestry.  If these presumed siblings all have children or grandchildren with the given names Ajzyk and Chaja Sura, it's likely they were named after shared ancestors.  For example, it appears that Abram Josek had a delayed 1898 birth registration for a daughter named Chaja Sura.

Finally, I would suggest contacting the JRI-Poland Town Leader to see if he has any additional information or suggestions . . . I know he has been active on this forum in the past.

Hopefully this helps!

Regards,
Aaron Slotnik
Chicago, IL


perlagold@...
 

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 08:41 PM, Debbie Terman wrote:
Hello all,
 
I am trying to connect 3 branches of ZILBERMAN/ZYLBERMAN ancestors who were all from Wyszkow & surrounding area in Russia/Poland in mid to late 1800s.
My theory is that these 3 people were siblings:
Abram Josek (Yosev) ZILBERMAN
Chawa Zylberman DYBNER
Leiba Rejza Zilberman RUBIN
but I haven't been able to prove or disprove it.
Here is what I know:
Leiba was born early in 1860, calculated from her age as listed in her children's birth records. Her parents were Ajzyk ZILBERMAN & Chaja Sura SOKOL. Leiba had a twin brother Lejzor Litman and an older brother Zelek, born c. 1858 as calculated from his marriage record. (There are also 2 younger siblings who I found, with a 6 year gap between the twins & the next one.) By using parent ages in the marriage records, I estimate that Ajzyk was born in 1816 & Chaja Sura in 1824. This would mean that their oldest child I've found (Zelek) was born when Ajzyk was 41 and Chaja Sura was 33. That would have been very old to start having children during that time (and very old for my family).
Chawa was born between 1850 & 1854, calculated from her age as listed in her children's birth records. There are discrepancies in her age listings, which is why a range. She was my gg-grandmother. Because she was born and married before the earliest Wyszkow records posted on JRI-Poland (which start 1874), I cannot locate her records and do not know her parents' names. She would fit in as an older sibling to Zelek and Leiba based on the timing.
Abram Josek was born between 1861 & 1864, again calculated from children's birth records with age discrepancies. I don't know his parents' names, though he would fit in the 6-year gap mentioned above.
As far as I know, none of these people came to the US, but they all had at least one child who did, and I am able to find information on the US side about those who immigrated.
My uncle z"l, who passed away last summer, had a vague recollection that Leiba's children & Abram Josek's children were first cousins to Chawa's daughter (my great-grandmother & his grandmother), which would fit with the 3 ancestors above being siblings. However, a vague recollection is not a proof.
Can anyone guide me to where I can look for information from the 1850-1865 period in Wyszkow to help me figure this out?
Thanks in advance.
 
Debbie Cohn Terman
Newton MA, USA

 Hi Debbie,
My grandparents were Mottel and Leiba (Schenker) Zylberman. They were from Opole Lubelski, Poland. My great grandparents were Kiva and Perla (Lerner) Zylberman. I'm not sure of their proximity to Wyszkow, but I thought I would write you in the outside chance there was a connection.
Coincidentally, my sister lives in Newton.
Regards,
Perla Goldschmidt