Morris and Matilda Lyons #germany #unitedkingdom


pelling97@...
 

Hi,
I am searching for records of my GGG Grandparents, MORRIS(MOSES) and MATILDA LYONS. The records I already have show they were both Jewish and both born in Hamburg about 1815 (+/- 5 years). They migrated to Glasgow sometime before 1839 when their first child's birth is registered there. I have found records of their lives from that point onwards but have had no success in looking for information relating to their origins in Hamburg and their families before that. I contacted the Hamburg Jewish Genealogical Society to search Hamburg births but they found nothing.

Relevant information I have:
Morris (Moses) Lyons b. circa 1815 in Hamburg. His Hebrew name is recorded as 'Moshe ben Yechiel' which I believe means his father was called Yechiel. I have searched for a Yechiel Lyons in all online records but without success. Morris was an artificial flower maker. 
Matilda Lyons b. circa 1815 in Hamburg. I do not know her family name before marriage. Her short obituary published in the Jewish Chronicle has the phrase' American and Australian papers please copy'. It is, therefore, possible that either Matilda or Morris had family members in both countries.

There are several examples of the Lyons name in the area of what is now northern Poland and my rather feeble theory at present is that Yechiel moved form Prussia to Hamburg at some point before 1815.

Would the name Yechiel have been morphed into something else? Might the name Lyons have been Anglicised? 

Does anyone have any matches or likely parallels to these individuals? 

Many thanks
David Pelling
Staffordshire, England




rosibal
 

Hello David

It is highly likely that Lyons is an anglicized name. Are there any marriage/death records for the children or even the wife that may show the mother's maiden name?

Regards,

Shosh Eizenshtein

KESSLER, BALBIRER, CHARAS, Lesko, Galicia; MITNIK, REKUN, KANTERMAN, Zashkov, Bogopol, Pervomaysk, Ukraine


Reuven Mohr
 

I would agree that LYONS is probably (not necessarily, but if there are no records found with such this name, then yes) an anglicised name. Usually there is some resemblance between old and new name: LOEB, LOEWENSTEIN, LOEWENTHAL, LOEWENBERG, LEVI, LEVY, LEVINSON, LEVINGER are a few suggestions.

Yechiel can be replaced by Michel/Michael

Reuven Mohr
Israel


pelling97@...
 

Hello Shosh,
Unfortunately, the marriage record of Morris and Matilda Lyons does not survive in the records from Glasgow and likewise the birth records of all their 6 Glasgow-born children (2  boys and 4 girls). I have the marriage records of the two sons, Isidore and Gustavus, but their mother's family name is not recorded. The four daughters never married. All the death certificates, obituaries and gravestone information I have, so far, do not show Matilda's name. 

Morris and Matilda became British Subjects between 1861 and 1871 and there should be a record of this available which might show more information. This is my next pursuit! Of course, it is possible that Morris and Matilda were married in Hamburg before they set out for Glasgow and so a records search there is needed.
Thanks for your interest,

Regards,

David Pelling


l.a.m.buisman@...
 

About surnames in Hamburg changing from patronym to official familyname: https://jewish-history-online.net/article/czakai-family-names

Maybe Yechiels father was Levi/Leib/Leonard/Lion. And he officially adopted that name as his surname. (in Glasgow anglicized to Lyons, maybe just because the immigration officer heard something like son of Leib, or Leib's sohn as Lion(s).
A name change like that could also has happened generations earlier. For business reasons many merchants took on a civic name way before that. In Jewish records usually just find name and patronym.
So you may have to search for surnames that start with Levi/Leib/Lion/Leon (maybe other variants. Mind pronunciation in German and imagine how a Brit would understand it.

Loes Buisman, Amsterdam


Robert Weinberg
 

Dear David, A couple of thoughts. "Lion" was a German Jewish family name in MW Germany, possibly sometimes Lyon.  And "Yechiel" was almost certainly not the name used in the outside world.  The name is almost unheard of among German Jews as a civil name. That leaves you empty-handed with what his "official", non-Hebrew name was. Best wishes Bob Weinberg


Michael Tobias
 

It is not that the possible marriage and birth records in Glasgow did not survive - they never existed.  Statutory Registration in Scotland did not start until 1855 - before that families registered in Churches (Old Parish Registers) and Jews were exempt.  Some Jewish families registered at the Parishes but they are few and far between.

There were other German-Jewish families in Scotland from the late 18th century who used the surname LYONS or LYON. In one case the father's given name was Leib (Yiddish meaning the animal Lion, hence the choice of surname).  Most German families in Germany at that time did not have surnames. 

Several researchers have family trees on Ancestry which give the names of Matilda's parents and her maiden name as LOVELL.  I see that son Isidore married Lavinia LOVELL so there might have been an ongoing connection between those families.

Michael Tobias
Glasgow, Scotland


rv Kaplan
 

But what hasn't survived in Glasgow are any Jewish records of birth or marriage before the late 1850s.

Harvey Kaplan
Glasgow

On Sat, 4 Sep 2021, 16:35 Michael Tobias, <michael@...> wrote:
It is not that the possible marriage and birth records in Glasgow did not survive - they never existed.  Statutory Registration in Scotland did not start until 1855 - before that families registered in Churches (Old Parish Registers) and Jews were exempt.  Some Jewish families registered at the Parishes but they are few and far between.

There were other German-Jewish families in Scotland from the late 18th century who used the surname LYONS or LYON. In one case the father's given name was Leib (Yiddish meaning the animal Lion, hence the choice of surname).  Most German families in Germany at that time did not have surnames. 

Several researchers have family trees on Ancestry which give the names of Matilda's parents and her maiden name as LOVELL.  I see that son Isidore married Lavinia LOVELL so there might have been an ongoing connection between those families.

Michael Tobias
Glasgow, Scotland


rv Kaplan
 

Often surname changes are random.  In Scotland, we have Lyons families over the years who were previously  Entein, Lasker, Nussbaum etc.  There were also families which took the name Lyon.

Interestingly, my grandfather's Hebrew name was Aryeh Leib, but his Scottish birth certificate in 1890 lists him as Lion Kaplan - with lion being a direct translation of Aryeh.  All through his life, though, he was known as Louis!

Harvey Kaplan
Glasgow, Scotland


paveanyu@...
 

Hi,                      5th September 2021

I wonder , if it is any help--or not?

In a public --Jewish Telephone book--London NW4 --
The  Telephone book been printed about 10 years ago.

There is  a Miss. A  Lyons---tel:  020-8201-5993  Fax: 020-8201 5992
and        a Miss S. Lyons     tel:: 020-8201-5994  Fax. 020-8201-5992

Same address

Best of luck
Veronika Pachtinger
London -UK

I would like to take the opportunity  to
Wish  a
Guth Gebenched , Mazeldike  Healthy Happy Year to 
Everybody at Jewish Gen 
and to
Klal Yisroel

Countless Blessed Healthy Years ahead in prosperity to All.
paveanyu@...