Newbie researching Vilna Lithuania #lithuania
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Marcie Murray
Hello, I hope this is the best way to post for the help on researching Vilna, Lithuania. Apparently there is no Litvahk Group on Jewish Gen even though one is listed. I was just informed that my grandmother was born in Vilna in 1891. Her maiden name was Weiss and she had a twin Sister. She married in the US. I have her Marriage certificate with is somewhat illegible regarding her mother’s first name. (Possibly Sarha or Basha Chaimowitz) See Attached Her father’s name is listed as Herry and is somewhat different than the English name he adopted, Harris. But his Hebrew name was Tzvi Hersh according to his matzeiva. He died in the US. I did a cursory search on Litvaksig.org. ( Does one need to pay to access that?) It seems that most of the info there is after WWII. What is the best way to proceed with little information. One of the things that spurred my search was that I was looking to find My great Aunt Jennie’s ( My grandmother’s twin sister) burial place to determine her Hebrew name and found her, but her grave had no headstone! I want to have one erected but I want to put her Hebrew name on it. Any suggestions on how to proceed would be appreciated --Marcie Murray Minneapolis MN |
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Diane Jacobs
After 20 years I have found many vital records and revisions lists, etc etc on the All Lithuania
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Database on Jewishgen’s Lithuania records. When searching always search phonetically and be sure to check all towns in Vilna Gubernia since many may have come from various towns within the Gubernia while stating they were from Vilna. While my family’s last residence was Vilna on their 1888 passenger manifests, they actually came from Gelvonai and Sirvintos in Vilna Gubernia and later on from Jonava in Kuanas Gubernia. Remember first names may not be similar to the English versions so check parent’s names for all records listed. There is a lot there that most likely needs careful checking over. Good luck Diane Jacobs On Dec 1, 2022, at 5:36 PM, Marcie Murray <mrsbrite@...> wrote:
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Diane Jacobs, Somerset, New Jersey |
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Judith Singer
Hello - there is certainly a Lithuania Research Group, available at https://www.litvaksig.org/. It has some Lithuania-wide data but also serves as home to the various district research groups. I think that what you really need is the Vilnius District Research Group at https://www.litvaksig.org/research/district-research/vilnius-district-research-group. There's a huge amount of data there. Judith Singer |
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Shelley Mitchell
If you compare Sadie and Single, I would say it was Sasha. When trying to guess a name, the more text you share, the better it is to determine a name
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paulkozo@...
It might be helpful to look at the Litvaksig FAQ https://www.litvaksig.org/information-and-tools/faq/ . There is a "getting started" page https://www.litvaksig.org/research/family-research. The Vilnius Ditrict Research Group page is at https://www.litvaksig.org/research/district-research/vilnius-district-research-group.
Please keep in mind that when people said they came from "Vilna", this might refer to the city of Vilna, the district of Vilna or the province (or Guberniya) of Vilna. A named place might be where an individual was born, and so a birth record could exist for that place, but the family might have been registered somewhere else. Often a birth is at the mother's family registration town. It is quite possible though for neither parent's family to be registered at the birth town. There are a number of ways to "home in" on hometowns. With an unusual name a search on the All Lithuania Database can yield instant dividends. With more common names start in the new country: the main sources are probably ship manifests and naturalization papers. Sometimes town information is on other records - occasionally UK census records, US draft cards, marriage certificates, obituaries or major anniversary writeups (for a 100th birthday, say). In the United States bigger cities, a burial might be associated with a Landsmanschaft - an association of emigrants from a particular town or district. Good luck with your research. -- Paul Hattori London UK |
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Malcolm Blier
Can't help, but I have a program to convert from negative to positive. Nicer that way.
Mal Blier  |
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Marcie Murray
Someone Suggested I post additional information that might be useful in finding Jennie's name. I have several people that are named Jennie =, but on the other side of the family. My Aunt Jean on the other side of my family has the Hebrew name of Shayndel and I assume she is named for her Grandmother whose name I beleive was Jenny. But this Jenny is on the other side of the family and I cannot assume that her Hebrew name is Shaindel as tempting as it might be. to be able to erect a matzeiva in her memory.
Twin Sisters, Sadie and Jenny's father was known as Harris, Herry, Harry WEISS. ( His mother was Fanny Sokoloff. On his death certificate it lists his wife as Sahrah Weiss, (nee Chaimowitz) He died at the age of 80 in Brooklyn. Family members claim that his wife did not come with him to America and he is listed as widowed. I found, jut today that he originated in Lida Belarus. Jennie is buried in the Home of Peace Cemetery in San Diego. She sadly, unknowingly married a man that was a bigamist and had a son with him. They divorced according to my cousin who is older that I. I tried to contact her grandson, as her son had passed away. Her grandson had not returned my attempts to communicate with him. Any help or direction to discover more of my family, but particularly discovering Jenny's Hebrew name -- Marcie Murray Minneapolis MN |
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Marcie Murray
Possibly. I have seen the name Sarah as Sarha. It looks to me like an "r" in other names. Thanks for your input. Sasha is I think a man's name
-- Marcie Murray Minneapolis MN |
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Marcie Murray
I just found Sadie's father's death certificate and it listed his wife, clearly as Sahrah. Mystery solved. In trying to research her I tried the phonetic spelling of Sarha. Ill keep trying. Thanks for your help
-- Marcie Murray Minneapolis MN |
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Odeda Zlotnick
Shayndel is not a Hebrew name. |
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Marcie Murray
I found information on JG that my maternal great grandfather "originated" from Lida. His mother's name was Fannie Sokoloff. Could this name SOKOLOVSKII be related to Sokoloff, (which is found on various Lida Lists)?
-- Marcie Murray Minneapolis MN |
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Marcie Murray
As Jennie is a twin, her sistrer, my grandmother was named Sheina. I doubt they gave her the same name as her sister
-- Marcie Murray Minneapolis MN |
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Michele Lock
I would approach this a few ways -
1. Look for every US record you can find for Jennie, especially early ones close to the time that she came to the US. See what name(s) she used early on, and if she used any different ones. That might give you a clue about what her name was back in the old country. 2. Look for her ship passenger list (the list of passengers in the ship that she took from Russia to the US). I would use the SteveMorse.org site, to go through the lists that are available online. Remember to look at other ports along the east coast, and not just at the New York port. It might be easier to search for your grandmother Sheina/Sarah first, since she likely traveled under the name Sheina or something similar. Hopefully she came with her sister Jennie. The US census records for 1920 and 1930 will have the approximate years for when they immigrated to the US. 3. Look to see if Jennie ever became a citizen, or obtained citizenship through her husband. His and her US census records will have information in the 'Citizenship' column about their status; if that column shows 'na' that means they went through the naturalization process. On her husband's naturalization papers, there may be information about her. Or she may have naturalized on her own after 1922, when the citizenship laws changed for women. 4. Her Hebrew name - For a woman from Eastern Europe born over 100+ years ago, they would not have had an official Hebrew first name. Men always had a Hebrew name, for when they were called to the Torah in synagogue. But since women did not participate in synagogues that way 100+ years ago, no need for a Hebrew name. What women had were their original Yiddish first names, and these are what would appear on their gravestones. Plenty of women 100+ years ago have names like Reizel, Sheina, Mindel, Freda, Sprintzel, etc on their gravestones in the Hebrew section, spelled out with Hebrew letters. The only time a woman would have a Hebrew name on her gravestone was if her original name was from the Bible, like Leah or Rachel or Miriam, etc. Hopefully this gives you some other avenues to go down. Michele Lock Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania Rabinowitz in Papile, Lithuania and Riga, Latvia Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus |
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Odeda Zlotnick
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 12:35 AM, Marcie Murray wrote:
My great Aunt Jennie’s ( My grandmother’s twin sister)Then you wrote Twin Sisters, Sadie and JennyNow you write As Jennie is a twin, her sistrer, my grandmother was named Sheina. I doubt they gave her the same name as her sisterWho was Sadie? Who was Jenny? Who was Scheina? -- Odeda Zlotnick Jerusalem, Israel |
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Renee Steinig
Marcie Murray <mrsbrite@...> wrote on Dec.1 about her grandmother, Sadie Weiss Becker, daughter of Harris or Harry (Tzvi Hersh) Weiss and Sarha or Basha Chaimowitz, and wife of Benjamin Becker. Marcie has been told that Sadie was born in 1891, in Vilna. She hopes to learn the Hebrew name of Sadie's twin sister Jennie, who is buried in San Diego without a stone, and also to discover more family. Marcie later wrote that Harris died at the age of 80 in Brooklyn and that his mother, per his death record, was Fannie Sokoloff. She also mentioned that "family members claim that his wife did not come with him to America," that she'd learned that Harris originated in Lida, Belarus, and that her grandmother Sadie's Jewish name was Sheina. Here are some findings about the family: Looking at Harry Weiss's death 1943 certificate, I saw that the informant was a son, Ben Weiss, who lived at 412 Pulaski St., Brooklyn. According to his World War II draft card, Ben's full name was Benjamin David Weiss and he was born in Lida. Ben's census entries -- alien in 1940 and citizen in 1950 -- suggest that he was naturalized in the 1940s, so I looked for him in the German Genealogy Group's naturalization database. It includes three petitions filed in Brooklyn's Eastern District federal court in the 40s by men named Benjamin Weiss. Petition #335865, found on FamilySearch, led to an "Aha!" moment: It shows that Benjamin immigrated in August 1910 as Benjamin Wischmansky. His arrival record also lists his mother, Sore, and three siblings -- Yechiel, Frimme, and Broche, who appear to have become Sam, Fannie, and Rose in the US. Also mentioned on the manifest: Sore's mother Chaje Chaimowitz in Lida and Sore's husband at 390 Grand St., New York. So Marcie's great-grandmother Sarah did come to America. She died in Brooklyn on 17 April 1939 and is buried in the same section as Harris/Harry at Mount Zion Cemetery. According to her death record, her last address was 376 Saratoga Ave. -- the same as the family's on the 1930 census and on Ben's marriage record -- and her husband was Harry. Parents' names -- Samuel Kaplan and Ida Haimowitz -- are not quite right, but it's common to see errors on death records. Using the information on Benjamin's manifest plus the names on Sarah's and Harris's graves, I searched for the family in the LitvakSIG Database and found them on a 1903 revision list -- in Lida, then in Vilna Gubernia. Thank you LitvakSIG, for yet another "Aha!"  The two 13-year-olds -- Sheina and Iakha Vismontskii -- must be twins Sadie and Jennie Weiss. (Iakha, per Alexander Bieder's Dictionary of Ashkenazic Given Names, is a version of Yocheved -- or Yokhved, as transliterated in the book.) Still to be found: arrival records for Girsh, Sheina and Iakha. |
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Marcie Murray
Hi Renee, Thank you for all your work. I see some problems with some of the associations. I believe that this Ben Weiss is probably a relative, but not necessarily a direct relation. On Sarah's death certificate it lists her father as Samuel Kaplan. If that is the case, her maiden name would be Kaplan. My Grandmothers mother's maiden name is Chaimowitz. I am guessing that Herry’s ( Harry’s) mother Sahrah was a sister of Itta
Also The death certificate of Harry Weiss shows he lived at 608 Bedford Ave for 40 years. Although it was signed by Ben it was probably his Son-in Law, my grandfather [ who adopted the English name Ben) and ( who I think might have been weary of authorities, since he and his family suffered in the Pogroms and he felt it was probably easier to claim he was a son) Since Sarah Weiss lived for 25 years on Saratoga street. I don’t think it is my Sahrah.
Where can I see that 1930 census record? I also want to see if I can find my grandmother on the Census in the early 1900’s before she married in 1911 and perhaps after she was married in 1920. I found Benjamin on a ship manifest.
The names Grish and Ittka are totally unfamiliar in my family as is. Sadie, Sarah and Harry and Weiss are VERY common names. So this is a very tough road with many pages to slog through
I still need to examine your info of which I am very appreciative since I do think they are related.
From: Renee Steinig <genmaven@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2022 8:19:00 AM To: JewishGen <main@...> Subject: Re: [JewishGen.org] Newbie researching Vilna Lithuania #lithuania
Marcie Murray <mrsbrite@...> wrote on Dec.1 about her grandmother, Sadie Weiss Becker, daughter of Harris or Harry (Tzvi Hersh) Weiss and Sarha or Basha Chaimowitz, and wife of Benjamin Becker. Marcie has been told that Sadie was born in 1891, in Vilna. She hopes to learn the Hebrew name of Sadie's twin sister Jennie, who is buried in San Diego without a stone, and also to discover more family.
Here are some findings about the family:
So Marcie's great-grandmother Sarah did come to America. She died in Brooklyn on 17 April 1939 and is buried in the same section as Harris/Harry at Mount Zion Cemetery. According to her death record, her last address was 376 Saratoga Ave. -- the same as the family's on the 1930 census and on Ben's marriage record -- and her husband was Harry. Parents' names -- Samuel Kaplan and Ida Haimowitz -- are not quite right, but it's common to see errors on death records.
Using the information on Benjamin's manifest plus the names on Sarah's and Harris's graves, I searched for the family in the LitvakSIG Database and found them on a 1903 revision list -- in Lida, then in Vilna Gubernia. Thank you LitvakSIG, for yet another "Aha!"
The two 13-year-olds -- Sheina and Iakha Vismontskii -- must be twins Sadie and Jennie Weiss. (Iakha, per Alexander Bieder's Dictionary of Ashkenazic Given Names, is a version of Yocheved -- or Yokhved, as transliterated in the book.)
Still to be found: arrival records for Girsh, Sheina and Iakha.
Renee
Renee Stern Steinig
-- Marcie Murray Minneapolis MN |
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Sherri Bobish
Hi Marcie,
The question on the death cert is how many years lived in the City of New York, not how many years at a specific address. So, Harry may have lived on Saratoga before residing on Bedford. Attached is a 1930 census page for Harry & Sarah WEISS at 376 Saratoga Ave. You asked where census can be viewed. www.familysearch.org is a free site and all the U.S. Federal census can be searched and viewed there. Good luck in your search,
Sherri Bobish
Searching: RATOWSKY / CHAIMSON (Ariogala, Lith.) WALTZMAN (Ustrzyki Dolne, Pol.) LEVY (Tyrawa Woloska, Pol.) LEFFENFELD (Daliowa & Jasliska, Pol.) BOJDA / BLEIWIESS (Tarnow & Tarnobrzeg, Pol.) SOKOLSKY / SOLON / SOLAN (Grodek, Bialystok, Pol.) BOBISH (your guess is as good as mine! LOL) |
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Michele Lock
With regards to the 1903 Lida Revision List showing the Vismontskii family, with father Girsh and mother Sore - A couple of things - 1. These Revision lists were written in Russian, and Russian has no letter for 'H', so instead the letter 'G' was used. So 'Girsh' is simply the Russian way of writing the Yiddish name 'Hersh'. 2. This Revision list shows the name of Girsh/Hersh's father as Shakhno, a rather unusual Yiddish name. 3. The death certificate for Harry Weiss shows his father's name was Sachny Weiss. Sachny is just another variation on the name Shakhno (not unusual for 'Sh' and 'S' to be used interchangeably in some Yiddish names). This is a very good indication that Girsh/Hersh Vismontshkii, son of Shakhno, is the same person as Harry Weiss, son of Sachny.  4. On the 1903 Revision list from Lida, the twins Sheina and Iakha are 13 years old, so born in 1890. On Sarah Weiss's 1911 NYC marriage certificate, she says she is 21 years old, so born in 1890. A perfect match. Iakha would be written by us as Yacha, and it is correct that this is a Yiddish nickname for the Hebrew name Yocheved. 5. A photo of Harry Weiss's gravestone will show his father's name in Hebrew. If you have it available, please post it so we can see what it says for the father's name. With all of these pieces of information matching, it is clear that the Vismontskii family of Lida, with father Girsh and mother Sore, with twins Sheina and Yacha, are the same family living in NYC as Harry and Sarah Weiss, with twin daughters Sarah and Jennie Weiss. I am about 90% certain that the Hebrew name for Jennie Weiss is Yocheved bat Tvi Hersh, but I will let others chime in with their opinions. The Jewishgen records for Lida are fairly numerous, so there should be other records for this Vismontskii family (probably spelled with other variations on Jewishgen). -- Michele Lock Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania Rabinowitz in Papile, Lithuania and Riga, Latvia Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus |
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Renee Steinig
Thank you, Michele, A photo of Harris/Harry Weiss's grave is on FindAGrave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/143145081/harris-weiss The Hebrew: Tzvi Hersh ben R'Shachna. And the Hebrew name on Sarah's stone, at https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/143146988/sarah-weiss reads Sara Rashe bat R'Shimeon -- a match to wife Sora Rasha on the revision list. Renee Michele Lock <michlock77@...> wrote:
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