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Removing initial I from names #names


Jeffrey Cohen
 

Does anyone know why an I (or yod) was sometimes removed from start of names ?
In my family Italienner became Talyena, and Israel became Srul.

Jeffrey Cohen,  jeff59471@...>


Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

Srul is one of many Yiddish nicknames for Israel.   

Why do we use 
Betsy  for Elizabeth
Liza     “   Elizabeth
Gene  for  Eugene 
Pat      "   Patricias
Bill      “   William
Babs    “   Barbara
Madge  “  Madeline
Sadie   “   Sarah

Could go on, but you get the idea.

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ


Does anyone know why an I (or yod) was sometimes removed from start of names ?
In my family Italienner became Talyena, and Israel became Srul.

Jeffrey Cohen,  jeff59471@...>
_._,_._,_


Susan&David
 

Its the same today.  Eric is called Rick or Ricky,  Elizabeth is Liz, Emanuel is Manny

David Rosen
Boston, MA

On 7/21/2020 11:01 AM, Jeffrey Cohen via groups.jewishgen.org wrote:
Does anyone know why an I (or yod) was sometimes removed from start of names ?
In my family Italienner became Talyena, and Israel became Srul.

Jeffrey Cohen,  jeff59471@...>


Kris Murawski
 

A syncope of unstressed syllables? Like veg(e)table, cam(e)ra.
Kris Murawski
Raleigh, NC


David Barrett
 

Lazy speech 'street - slang'   ??


JoannaYael
 

The letter Yod י or Yod Heh יה are names of God, hence, there is a custom among observant Jews to forgo writing them down. 
Examples: Yehudit יהודית was Hudes, Yehoshua יהושע was Shaye/Shaya, etc.
 
That being said, Srul is a common Yiddish nickname for Istael, which led to the famous “Srulik”, the cartoon character representing the State of Israel.
 
 


Jeffrey Cohen
 

Yes but those are first names and I was referring to family names that are modified.


Dr.Josef ASH
 

I'll add: Yitshak become Tsahi, Yehezkel - Hezi, Yehoram - Rami, Yonatan - Nati
Jeffrey comes from Ephraim. Weren't YOU called at home Frojm,  (or smthng like)?
It is natural in every language to shorten the names at home.
I'm sure Ivanka doesn't call her husband (at home) Donald, but ... i don't know English well enough...
I am sure that italian woman in Israel would be called Tali.
I tryed to answer your question. 
Some linguist would do it wider...


Barbara Mannlein <bsmannlein@...>
 

Same principle:  names get shortened..   
 
Many  Steinkopfs became Stein, Hautkovich became Kovich, Sotomayer became Mayer…...
 
BTW, your initial post did not specify family names:
"Does anyone know why an I (or yod) was sometimes removed from start of names ?
In my family Italienner became Talyena, and Israel became Srul."
 
Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:16 AM, Jeffrey Cohen via groups.jewishgen.org <jeff59471=icloud.com@...> wrote:

Yes but those are first names and I was referring to family names that are modified.


Dr.Josef ASH
 

Surnames appeared only some two hundred years ago.
Until that men used names. And continued to do the same.


David Lewin
 

At 16:01 21/07/2020, Jeffrey Cohen via groups.jewishgen.org wrote:
Does anyone know why an I (or yod) was sometimes removed from start of names ?
In my family Italienner became Talyena, and Israel became Srul.

Jeffrey Cohen,  jeff59471@...>
_._,_._,_


That looks like the vagaries of Yiddish - not the dropping of a Yud

David Lewin
London

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Miriam Bulwar David-Hay
 

It was not only the "I/Y" that was removed from the start of names. Yiddish-speaking Eastern European Jews, especially in Poland (the country with which I'm most familiar), tended to swallow the first letters of words and names when speaking, for example saying "chbin" for "ich bin" (I am) and "dvelst" for "du velst" (you will). Names were often abbreviated by dropping the first syllable/part of the name, especially if it was unstressed (as opposed to what happens in the English-speaking world, where it is more common to drop the END of the name). Thus Alexander (which would be abbreviated to Alex in an English-speaking country) becomes Sender in Poland, Emanuel becomes Manel, Efraim becomes Froim, Yeshaya becomes Shaya, Israel becomes Srul, and so on. I can easily see a Polish Jew turning Italienner into Talyener/a. 

All the best,
Miriam Bulwar David-Hay,
Raanana, Israel.
Professional journalist, writer, editor, proofreader.
Professional translator (Hebrew/Yiddish to English).
Certified guide, Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial and Museum.
 


Shlomo Katz
 

The subject of shortened names and nicknames is of great significance in Halachah / Jewish law because a Get / divorce document must have the names exactly right, or the couple may not enter into new marriages, and future children of the woman would be Mamzeirim / legally bastards. Thus, it is of far greater significance than why Patricia is Pat and Elizabeth is Betsy. Many scholarly rabbinic works have been written over many centuries on the subject of names, their correct spellings, and whether we can assume two names are the same or not. You also need to know the story behind the name.  For example, I have an Israeli cousin named Kobi, which many people would assume is actually Yaakov. In fact, he is named after his grandfather Yaakov. However, his mother felt that Yaakov was old-fashioned so they gave him only the "modern" name Kobi. In that situation, it would be wrong according to Jewish law to substitute Yaakov.

Shlomo Katz
Silver Spring MD


bobmalakoff@...
 

No, she calls her husband Jared:)