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Son apparently named after living father #germany #names

Peter Lobbenberg
 

I have just found on Ancestry the marriage record of Isaac Mayer and Barbara Strauss, born Simon, in Mainz in 1848.  Here's a loosely translated extract:
"On 19 January 1848 there appeared before me, etc ... Isaac Mayer, citizen of Mainz, hitherto living in Ingenheim, born in Kriegshaber in Bavaria on 31 January 1815, adult son of Joseph Mayer, teacher of religion, who died in Kriegshaber on 4 February 1818 and his wife Therese Bachmann who died in Kriegshaber on 15 April 1830.  The grandparents too are deceased: Joseph Mayer in Altenstadt on 24 January 1812, Rachele Landauer in Altenstadt on 2 June 1786, Elias Bachman [sic] in Altenstadt on 5 January 1803 and Fanny Bachman in the same locality [ebendaselbst] on 5 August 1840."
The record appears unusual in naming grandparents: I wonder if the explanation is that Isaac had no senior family members available to approve the marriage (the bride's mother, in contrast, is specifically recorded as living and present and as giving her approval). 
But I'm mainly posting about Isaac's father.  He is named Joseph Mayer - but so is the grandfather, who died only three years before Isaac's birth and must therefore have been living when Isaac's father Joseph was born.  I had thought there was a long-standing rule or custom among German Jews not to name children after living relatives, much less a living parent.  Can anyone suggest why that rule might have been breached in this case?  I'm aware that there has been recent discussion of this phenomenon on another thread, but that appears to centre largely around Eastern Jews and Sephardim, and I'm particularly focusing here on German Jewry.
Many thanks in advance,
Peter Lobbenberg in lockdown London, UK
peterlob@...

 

Eva Lawrence
 

I've come across instances of of a German Jewish son having the same
forename as his father and it was invariably because
the family had to adopt a legal surname. The custom.in France and
parts of Germany was that father and eldest son had the same first
name, and I
believe that this was often imposed on Jewish name-adopters. I think
that it only happened at these watershed moments
and that the two men would generally go
on using their previous Jewish first names in private.family situations
.although not on official documents.

Eva Lawrence
St Albans, UK
--
Eva Lawrence
St Albans, UK.

Rodney Eisfelder
 

Peter,
I have seen similar situations as a result of surname adoption in both France and the Rhineland. It may be that the older Joseph Mayer was originally called Mayer Joseph. When he had to register a surname, he reversed his name and became Joseph Mayer - which happened to be the name of one of his sons.
However,  the dates suggest that the older Joseph Mayer may have died before receiving a surname, and so he was posthumously given the surname adopted by his son, because otherwise there would need to be a long and complicated explanation about why father and son did not share a surname. In either case, my guess is that the older Joseph Mayer was actually Mayer Joseph. If you can find the records of the deaths referenced in the marriage record, things may become clearer.

I have also seen marriage records detailing the grandparents' status when the parents are not available to approve the marriage - these are typically Napoleonic civil records from west of the Rhine in the first half of the 1800s.

Rodney Eisfelder
Melbourne, Australia

Stephen Weinstein
 

Just because someone had the same name as his grandfather doesn't necessarily mean he was named for him.  Could be a coincidence.