I am trying to determine the parents of Isidor (e) Goldwasser and how he is related to me via my great grandmother.  My great Grandmother appears in searches for him as living with him on a 1930 Census and listed as Sister-in-law and her husband (my great Grandfather) as Brother-in-Law and she was a witness to one of his 3 marriages. On each marriage certificate the birth mother has a seemingly vastly different last name. I have attached the photos. Any suggestion on how to proceed?
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Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

When he arrived in the U.S. on the California in September 1912, Isidore listed Anna Stein as his sister. See attached. Do you know Anna's parents' names?

I also found the 1893 birth in Warsaw of an Icek Goldwasser to a Leiser (Louis?) (attached) but my Russian isn't good enough to pick out the mother's name. Perhaps someone else can translate.
Hope that helps.
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Jennifer Mendelsohn
Baltimore, Maryland
https://www.apgen.org/profiles/jennifer-mendelsohn

If it's an inaccuracy, it's not the only one. Isador is 24 in 1916. In 1925, he's 30. I'd like to know how he did THAT. In reviewing marriage certificates of my own family, I have gotten the sense that the clerks who filled out the forms may have been challenged spelling-wise. ("Number of Groom's Marriage: Foist" - that's a real one!) As I've commented about the census takers, I'm imagining a hurried, possibly noisy process where information was not necessarily conveyed clearly or transcribed properly. And while we in 2023 want real information, they were just getting something done and not necessarily interested in setting the record straight.

So that's one answer. You should keep trying to research the inconsistency, but keep in mind that mistakes happened, people still on the outer margins of American life may not have been concerned with bureaucratic details and just wanted the necessary paperwork.


Mal Blier
Lexington MA

That is so Very Helpful.
Do you think that Anna could be Emma? I'll need to.look more closely at the info I have on Emma as  she was married when she came here. I may have  come across Anna at some point but was not as attentive as you
But the big info that you supplied was that Louis might BE LEISER (LUZER, ELIEZER) Emma's father. And that makes them siblings. I was really searching for confirmation of that!
THANK YOU!
Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

I have at least one similar case that I fully decoded. My 2ggm Esther appeared with different last names on various certificates for her children - birth, marriage and death - in NY city and state, as well as Hungary/Slovakia. I figured out that her parents were Katy WALD and Moses GLUCK. Some of her children's certificates show Esther WALD, and some show it as Esther GLUCK. Not uncommon to use the mother's name if the marriage was not recorded as a civil union. And finally, after Moses GLUCK died and Esther was still living with her mother, Katy (WALD) GLUCK, married Josef GRUNFELD and there are certificates that show Esther as GRUNFELD (or GREENFIELD). It was the fact that her half-sister lived with her and that relationship appeared once on a census that I could decipher the last piece.

So Esther had 3 or 4 last names: WALD, GLUCK, GRUNFELD (and GREENFIELD).
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Jeff Goldner
Researching Goldner, Singer, Neuman, Braun, Schwartz, Gluck, Reichfeld (Hungary/Slovakia); Adler, Roth, Ader (Galicia); Soltz/Shultz/Zuckerman/Zicherman (Vitebsk, maybe Lithuania), Wald and Grunfeld (Secovce, Slovakia fka Galszecs)

I do hope someone is able to translate. Should I post it separately? Isidore is listed as Itzik on his naturalization papers and as Yitzchol ben Leib on his matzeiva (headstone). 
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Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

Indeed!! So many errors and inconsistencies.  Would you say that the earlier the source the more accurate?

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Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

Isidore is listed as Itzik on his naturalization papers and as Yitzchol ben Leib on his matzeiva (headstone). 

The son of Abraham appears in the bible as Yitschak.  Also pronounced "Yitschok".   Itsik is to Yitschak as Jimmy is to James.
And Yitschaks often became Isidors

I doubt the gravestone has Yitschol on it.
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Odeda Zlotnick
Jerusalem, Israel.

Can you remind me where you found this record? I found the birth record of my grandmother, daughter of Emma Stein that looks just like that. I have a Russian friend that said he will translate. Thank you

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Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

The Matzeiva does say in Hebrew Yitzchok ben Leib

Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

Marcie - I'd add that you included just two marriage cert's. The first marriage is attached twice, no third marriage.

Mal Blier

Sorry; my answer was incomplete.
On the detained list, he calls her "Elka" Stein and gives her address as 91 3rd Street
Which matches David/Emma Stein and son George in the 1915 census. The same family living with Isidore in 1930.
And if you look at George's birth certificate, Emma's maiden name is Goldwasser.
https://a860-historicalvitalrecords.nyc.gov/view/1961709

Regards,
Jennifer
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Jennifer Mendelsohn
Baltimore, Maryland
https://www.apgen.org/profiles/jennifer-mendelsohn

I just wanted to point out that the information populated in the NYC Marriage Certificates are transcribed by an official taken from the information in the NYC Marriage License Applications.

The officials have been known to do the best they can in reading the Application and, the transcription is also based upon its legibility.

I just wanted to clarify what I've found in my experience with this topic as much of my Maternal family lives/lived in NYC for generations (as I was born in the Bronx myself).

I hope I had explained the above okay via text... :-))

-- ~Brian D. Kerr, Esq | SSG, U.S. Army (Retired) | SSA, Brigade G1, U.S. Army (Retired) |>>Known Family Surnames (Researching): Dessler, Walk(Valk), Mahler (Maler), Paradisgarten (Paradisegarten), Tomasy (Thomashy), Gluck, Preisz (Priess), Steinhardt (Steinhart), Grossman (Grosman), Sholtz (Shultz), Kaplan, Bloom, Fischer (Fisher), Levy, Baum, Duwidewic, Meisal (Maisel)<<|>>Known Family Locations/Regions (of Surnames): Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania<<|

I noticed that as well. Yes Emma and Regina were Goldwassers. 
Can you tell me how i can look up the birth record for Emma and/or Regina Goldwasser. I want to know who their mother was and her maiden name if possible. They were born in 1880 and 1881 respectively. They lived in Poland. Their father, Eliezer is buried in the old Warsaw Cemetery. Most all documents list Warsaw Russia as home. My grandmother (born to Emma) is named for her grandmother Celia (Cyrla nee Bloom?) mentioned, I vaguely recall, Belarus. Other cousins say Tykocin was where they hailed from. Please advise how to proceed. Thank you
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Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

Maybe this is helpful to look up the birth or marriage record of Regina to see if her mother is listed there. Can you tell me where should I look?



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Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 03:05 AM, Marcie Murray wrote:

The Matzeiva does say in Hebrew Yitzchok ben Leib
Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

Indeed it does.
It says Yitzchok it does not say Yitzchol.

You wrote
 

Isidore is listed as Itzik on his naturalization papers and as Yitzchol ben Leib on his matzeiva (headstone)

Yitzchol must have been a misspelling.
--
Odeda Zlotnick
Jerusalem, Israel.

I posted the marriage certificate to Fanny, his first marriage on a separate topic 
"

Three different names listed as birth mother 3rd marriage certificate. First marriage 

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Marcie Murray
Minneapolis MN

Sorry I just saw this question.
Warsaw births are indexed on https://jri-poland.org/.
But currently to see originals, you need a VPN; there's no access to the archives from the US.
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Jennifer Mendelsohn
Baltimore, Maryland
https://www.apgen.org/profiles/jennifer-mendelsohn

Hi there!

I know this was deduced already, but confirmed on Isidore's naturalization application that Anna was Emma. Although the documentation has 'Anna' typed, she signed it 'Emma.' https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99HF-499D-3?i=883&cc=2060123

Also, you may have located an answer by now on Emma's mother's name, but in case not...

Emma's death record has a 4th possible last name for Celia...Bloom. Wonder what Isidor's death certificate has for parents' names? It wasn't available on the NY site due to it being after 1949, but maybe you can request it?

--
Martha Campbell

Also, did you determine that it was not the Cipa Stokband Goldwasser that you messaged about in 2021? Since Stokband was one of her possible last names and her findagrave record indicates her husband was Eliezer? Or just several coincidences?
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Martha Campbell