three-month Atlantic crossing by wooden sailing ship in 1880s? #poland #general


Hallie Metzger
 

Were wooden sailing ships still carrying passengers from Europe to the USA as late as the 1880s? My grandfather David Yalovsky Freedland, born about 1885 in Yedwabne, says his father Cantor Jacob Yalovsky came by wooden sailing ship to the USA  for a concert tour in the early 1880s  and encountered such heavy storms that the crossing took 3 months. Could this have included time spent at other ports along the way?
--
Hallie Metzger,  halmetz@...
SACHS (Kelme), TSIN(I)MON, FREEDLAND, FRIEDLANDER, FREELAND, HOFFENBERG (GUFINBERG)


Jill Whitehead
 

Jebwabne was in Lomza Gubernia in NE Poland. This was close to Konigsberg in East Prussia on the Baltic, but other routes were possible e.g. via rail to Hamburg or via Latvian ports. It was common for sailing ships to go from this area to Hull in England and then a train was taken to Liverpool to go onto America. My ancestors came to UK in 1860s and 1870s from the Suwalki Lomza gubernias likely via Konigsberg. They came by sailing boat. But by the 1880s much faster steam ships had come into operation for both the Baltic and Atlantic routes, and this made travel cheaper as well as faster.. The University of Hull's website has a lot of info on the sailing routes. 

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


Hallie Metzger
 

Jill, This is very helpful. I did not know about the University of Hull website and now have another clue to follow. It's also interesting that your ancestors came by sailing boat as it makes my family's story a little more credible. 

Hallie Metzger,  halmetz@...
SACHS (Kelme), TSIN(I)(a)MON, FREEDLAND, FRIEDLANDER, FREELAND, HOFFENBERG (GUFINBERG)


pweinthal
 

Why let truth get in the way of a good story?

Exaggeration - hyperbole - has long been a literary device used in Jewish story telling. When someone says they are so hungry they could eat a horse, it isn't meant literally. Just give them a sandwich. In the age of rapid, comfortable, steamship travel, a performer with scheduled tour dates would not be crossing the Atlantic to the U.S. on a masted sailing ship nor would it take 3 months. All families tell stories that have been embellished. Genealogists learn to eventually discern the grains of truth and which are simply good yarns.

Pat Weinthal
Massachusetts, USA


Hallie Metzger
 

Good point! There may indeed have been a storm and a delay but the story got embellished. Thanks for a lively viewpoint.

Hallie Metzger,  halmetz@...
SACHS (Kelme), TSIN(I)(a)MON, FREEDLAND, FRIEDLANDER, FREELAND, HOFFENBERG (GUFINBERG)r


Bill Rubin
 

The South Street Seaport Museum in New York City had at least one steel-hulled sailing ship when I visited in the 1980s. These sailing ships had more room for goods, products, and passengers because they didn’t need the room or the weight for coal or later diesel fuel. There were also ships with sails and a steam engine as an auxiliary source of power. Even though a few steam-driven ships were starting to make the trans-Atlantic trip in the 1840s, it was many, many years before commercial sailing ships ceased operation.
 
I believe it is very possible that your grandfather traveled to the US aboard a vessel that had sails.  
This is what I found while searching the Internet.

-Bill Rubin
Belmont, MA
USA


Jill Whitehead
 

http://www.norwayheritage.com/articles/templates/voyages.asp?articleid=28&zoneid=6

Please see this useful link for sailing routes. Though it is mainly interested in Scandinavian routes, a lot of it applies to Jewish migration as well, and it does give other sources of value. 

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


Hallie Metzger
 

Jill - Thanks for letting me know about this website. I'll check it out. Another piece of the puzzle could fall in place. And Bill has con firmed that my great-grandfather could indeed have been on a sailed ship in the 1880s. Hallie

Hallie Metzger,  halmetz@...
SACHS (Kelme), TSIN(I)(a)MON, FREEDLAND, FRIEDLANDER, FREELAND, HOFFENBERG (GUFINBERG)r


Hallie Metzger
 

Bill - I had no idea all this information was out there. So, even allowing for som exaggeration and for the fact that my grandfather was just a boy when he heard this story, it could have happened. Thanks! Hallie
Hallie Metzger,  halmetz@...
SACHS (Kelme), TSIN(I)(a)MON, FREEDLAND, FRIEDLANDER, FREELAND, HOFFENBERG (GUFINBERG)r


jbonline1111@...
 

Is it possible that the length of the entire trip was 3 months, not the crossing itself?  
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC


Hallie Metzger
 

Barbara - I never thought of that! That is a much more likely scenario since he came to sing in New York City synagogues but didn't intend to stay. So, like the game of telephone, whatever my grandfather heard as a child could have been misunderstood. Putting that together with what other people have shared about transatlantic routes and ships, I have a much clearer picture of the possibilities. Thanks, Hallie

Hallie Metzger,  halmetz@...
SACHS (Kelme), TSIN(I)(a)MON, FREEDLAND, FRIEDLANDER, FREELAND, HOFFENBERG (GUFINBERG)r


Pieter Hoekstra
 

Hallie,

I wasn't going to respond but considering some answers decided I will. Sailing vessels were still in use into the early 1900's. It is likely it would have been a fast 3 masted vessel with a riveted iron plate hull. A steam ship crossing Europe/UK to New York took around 10-12 days, a sailing ship around 20 days give or take. An Atlantic storm might have delayed a voyage 7-10 days in the extreme, unless they went the Northwest Passage and got stuck in ice for 6 months (that's a joke).
In that period ships generally didn't stop at multiple ports unless they were packet ships trading the African coast, the Pacific basin, etc., stopping picking up spices etc. and delivering necessities to small outposts. In that case they would be cargo vessels. A crossing of the Atlantic would be simply point A to point B trying to maintain some sort of schedule.

As Pat Weinthal suggests, a 5 day storm mid-Atlantic could easily turn into a 3 month epic clinging to the mast for dear life.

--

Pieter Hoekstra 
Moss / Moses, De Costa - London and Brighton
Barnett, Da Costa, Lazarus, Joseph, Judah, Solomon - London


Hallie Metzger
 

Pieter - I an gobsmacked! It would be amazing if this seeming tall tale could be true. I had no idea when I posted my query how much information was out there. Thank you so much for this insight. I'm curious, I admit, as to how you know it, Hallie

Hallie Metzger,  halmetz@...
SACHS (Kelme), TSIN(I)(a)MON, FREEDLAND, FRIEDLANDER, FREELAND, HOFFENBERG (GUFINBERG)


jbonline1111@...
 

Another thought: if indeed a storm caused a one-way sailing to be 3 months at that time in history, perhaps there are articles about it in various newspapers.  It might be worth researching the name of the ship if you have it, but you may be able to find an article even without the name of the ship.  Perhaps at newspapers.com or The Forward?
--
Barbara Sloan
Conway, SC


Jonathan Wexler
 

Wooden and iron sailing vessels were common in 1880 and continued to be so through the next decade. Hybrid vessels were present in about equal numbers in Western Europe and the US. Less so, in less developed regions.

If you get on a sailing vessel today, and make a direct port to port sail, 3-4 weeks is common.  With exceptional luck you can make it in 2 weeks on a fast sailing boat, with perfect weather, wind and current.

What you sailed on depended on where you were and where you were going and how much money you had.
How long your trip took was determined by distance, vessel, season, weather, routes and currents, war, and disease and money.

If you are on the Hamburg line running direct from London to New York on the latest Hybrid vessel, sailing with good wind and under power when necessary 4 weeks to a month is reasonable, if nothing goes wrong.

If you are running from Beirut to Baltimore, have stops in Rhodes, Smyrna, Pireus, Bari, Barcelona, and the Azores. 3 months is completely reasonable.

Re-coaling at set coaling stations was necessary. Period. You had to take on and discharge at various ports. if a sailing vessel, I cant imagine such a journey taking less than 3 months.

Jonathan Wexler


Pieter Hoekstra
 

Hallie Metzger, you can check ship manifests at the time to see the departing and arrival dates. This is an article discussing voyage times from the Royal Museum Greenwich which catalogues all things maritime. https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/blog/library-archive/18th-century-sailing-times-between-english-channel-coast-america-how

Pieter Hoekstra 
Moss / Moses, De Costa - London and Brighton
Barnett, Da Costa, Lazarus, Joseph, Judah, Solomon - London


almhuss@...
 

 

 

I've been doing a review of passenger manifests into New Orleans 1820-1860.  Before the Civil War, New Orleans was the second busiest port for immigrant arrivals after New York.  This was due in large part to the inexpensive transportation by river into the interior of the United States.  

 

I can say that many ship manifests show that it was not uncommon for sailing voyages to take 2 months or more, even without heavy storms.  For example, the Agnes left Bremen, Germany on October 26, 1845, and arrived in New Orleans January 1, 1846.  The Constitution left Bremen September 5, 1846, and arrived in New Orleans November 12, 1846.  And, the Lapland left Liverpool, England on September 26, 1846, and arrived in New Orleans November 12, 1846.  Source: NARA Series M259, Roll 25.

 

Allan M. Huss


rlowlondon@...
 

You may find this website useful.  I see that my gggrandfather departed Liverpool on 5 Sep 1855 and arrived New Orleans 20 Oct 1855.
(the story is that the family was shipwrecked on a previous attempt, but I have, so far, been unable to confirm that)
http://www.theshipslist.com/Forms/index.shtml
Various buttons on the website may be of use.

Roger Low
London, England
Researching Löw in Bohemia & Moravia


Hallie Metzger
 

To all: Thank you so much for all these responses! It's incredible that this story actually has some truth The responses have given me a wealth of leads to follow up and the hope that I might even find my great-grandfather somewhere on a manifest. Hallie Metzger, 716198 halmetz@...


rlowlondon@...
 

Would you be kind enough to share the URL for the University of Hull information on sailing routes?
Roger Low
London, England
researching  Löw in Bohemia and Moravia