Viewmate translation Russian - surname for bride, no surname for groom? #lithuania #records


Michele Lock
 

On Jewishgen, I found the probable 1854 marriage record for the brother of my great great grandfather Aron Lak, from the town of Telsiai, Lithuania. The brother's name is Jankel Lak, son of Efroim, according to his own gravestone. From his family's Hamburg ship passenger list, his wife's name was Shula (short for Shulamit, I imagine).

The Jewishgen record is for a Jankel son of Efroim, but there is no groom's surname indexed. For the bride, she is listed as Shulke Ordman; this corresponds to a US birth record, where her maiden surname was given as Ortman. 

For the original image below on Viewmate (Record #17), I'd like a translation from the Russian to confirm there is nothing written for the groom's surname, and to confirm her surname and father's name. Anything else of note about the either person would also be of interest. For some unknown reason, the Hebrew side of the record was not filled out.

https://www.jewishgen.org/viewmate/viewmateview.asp?key=VM93101

Has anyone come across this type of situation before, where no groom's surname was given? I suspect this Jankel Lak did not have his birth recorded, so when he married, they had a problem with how to write the marriage record.
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Michele Lock

Lock/Lak/Lok and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai and in Plunge/Telsiai, Lithuania
Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus


mvayser@...
 

Michele,
the name is listed as Yankel Efroimovich, which might mean either "Yankel son Efroim" or "Yankel Efroimovich" (as in someone's last name).  In this case, I think they didn't list his patronymic, just like record #14 - Toder Freynk (а 73 y.o., who married a 43 y.o. and gave 300 (!) rubles, as opposed to others on the same page, who only gave 42 or 84 rubles)
Shulke's father's name is Eliash.

Here is a twofer for you :)
Her brother is listed in the record above, #16 - a widower, Abram son of Eliash Ordman, but I can't make out name of his bride.  It starts with letters "RA", her father's name is Meyer.

Mike Vayser


Michele Lock
 

Thanks for that interpretation; I hadn't thought of the Russian 'Efroimovich' being a surname, rather than a patronymic.

I have looked to see if there are records for the 'Sounds like' surnames Efroimovich or Efroimovitz or Froimovitz in Telsiai, but no records for these surnames comes up [though plenty for Abramovich do].

Here is how the entry for this marriage looks on Jewishgen:



The only other record that I can find for Jankel Lak and wife Shula is the 1874 birth record for their son Ilia. They had at least 3 other children, the oldest that I know of born in 1862, but those records on Jewishgen don't exist.



So, you all don't think that this is the same family? I do know, from the US records for this Lak/Locke family, including for their other children Ida and Frank, that their mother's surname was Ortman, their father's Hebrew name was Jacob bar Ephraim, and from their Hamburg passenger list that the parents traveled with the given names Jankel and Shula.
--
Michele Lock

Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock and Kalon/Kolon in Zagare/Joniskis/Gruzdziai, Lithuania
Lak/Lok/Liak/Lock in Plunge/Telsiai in Lithuania
Trisinsky/Trushinsky/Sturisky and Leybman in Dotnuva, Lithuania
Olitsky in Alytus, Suwalki, Poland/Lithuania
Gutman/Goodman in Czestochowa, Poland
Lavine/Lev/Lew in Trenton, New Jersey and Lida/Vilna gub., Belarus


mvayser@...
 

It's quite likely, based on your additional record and lack of Efroimovich last names in the area, that this is the same family and the last name was just missed in the 1854 marriage record.  It's not out of the realm of possibility, that this couple had a child born 20 years after they were married.

Mike Vayser