Was 'Alt Schotland' a shtetl or a village with a high percentage of jewish inhabitants? #general #gdansk


r.peeters
 

Dear All,

I found some of my ancestors in the late 18-hundreds at 'Alt Schotland'. They lived outside the city walls of Danzig (Gdansk). I wonder:

1) Would it have been called a 'shtetl'' or was it a village with a high percentage of  jewish inhabitants ;
2) Does anyone know where the name 'Alt Schotland' came from? I wonder if it was derived from 'Skoten', a town on the coast of Norway, which lies approx. 1500 km. from Gdansk or that it is because of the relative proximity of Scotland (U.K.) where Skotes refer to an Irish Keltic tribe.
Since there also is 'New Scottia'(Canada) - approx. 1500 km. from Gdansk,  I tend to think that it dates back to the travels of the Vikings.  
 
Regards,
Ron Peeters (NL)


Professor Ryesky
 

Years ago I heard at some genealogy meeting that Alt Schottland near Gdansk was settled hundreds of years ago by Scottish traders who did business in the area.

Ken Ryesky,  Petach Tikva, Israel     profryesky@... 

Researching:
RAISKY/REISKY, ARONOV, SHKOLNIK(OV), AEROV; Gomel, Belarus
GERTZIG, BRODSKY; Yelizavetgrad, Ukraine
BRODSKY, VASILESKY; Odessa, Ukraine
IZRAELSON, ARSHENOV; Yevpatoriya, Ukraine (Crimea)


Jill Whitehead
 

I cannot speak for Ron's example, but the Scots were a recognized ethnic minority in Poland during the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth of the 18th century. They were brought in to kick start the Polish agricultural revolution, and later the industrial revolution.

Scots were particularly numerous in Suwalki gubernia in NE Poland, especially in the area of Dowspuda near Raczki, to such an extent that they formed their own village Scotia (which I visited in 2000), and there are still Scots surnames in the area today. One branch of my family emigrated to Edinburgh in 1868 (and others in 1870 and 1872) likely partly because of these Scots connections. 

By incredible coincidence, my aunt Doris Brown was a Land Girl in the Land Army in WW2 in SW Scotland (granddaughter of Hadassah Plotnowski born in Raczki), and she was billetted with Mona Maclean, whose family were Scots Polish and established the village of Scotia near Raczki. Mona wrote a book called "Agents of Change, Scots in Poland 1800-1918" in 2000, which details their contribution. 

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


Rodney Eisfelder
 

Ron,
According to the Polish Wikipedia page, https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stare_Szkoty
as translated by google translate:
"From the 16th century, the settlement was inhabited by Mennonites, Jews and Scots."
so it is pretty clear that "Alt Schotland" was named after its Scottish inhabitants.
Schottlaender is a German Jewish surname, meaning someone from either Scotland, or a (more likely), the settlement near Danzig.

I hope this helps
Rodney Eisfelder
Melbourne, Australia


rv Kaplan
 

In 2005, when I visited my ancestral towns in Lithuania, Rimantas
Zirgulis, Director of the Kedainiai Museum, had an interesting story
to tell about the former Scottish community in Kedainiai in the 17th
and 18th centuries. Scottish merchants, traders and mercenaries came
to the town under the benevolent Protestant rule of the Radzivill
family. They made their mark on the town, achieving commercial
success and increasing their influence. Rimantas writes that:

‘…in the second half of the 17th century, a particularly Scottish
oligarchy existed in Kedainiai…’

They integrated through time, and made their names sound Lithuanian.
There are examples on the museum displays of people called Benetas
(formerly Bennett), Aleksandras Gordonas (Gordon), Andersonas and
Diksonas! Rimantas contributed an article: "The Scottish Community in
Kedainiai c1630-c1750" to the volume by Alexia Grosjean & Steve
Murdoch (eds): Scottish Communities Abroad in the Early Modern Period
(Brill, Leiden, 2005), pp225 et seq.

So Scots were also living in Lithuania and may well have been
interacting with our Jewish ancestors there.

Harvey Kaplan
Glasgow

KAPLAN, FAYN, FEIN, FINE, BARSD, GRADMAN
- Ariogala, Josvainiai, Kedainiai, Krakes, Seta, Veliuona, Grinkiskis, Lithuania
FELMAN, MIL(L)ER, ROSENBLOOM - Kamenets-Podolsk, Shatava, Balyn, Ukraine
TROPP, STORCH - Kolbuszowa, Cmolas,Galicia
STORCH – Borowa, Galicia
LINDERMAN, LINDEMAN, LOPATKA, SZLAKMAN – Kutno and Plock, Poland







On Tue, 4 Oct 2022 at 12:08, Jill Whitehead via groups.jewishgen.org
<jill.whitehead=blueyonder.co.uk@...> wrote:

I cannot speak for Ron's example, but the Scots were a recognized ethnic minority in Poland during the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth of the 18th century. They were brought in to kick start the Polish agricultural revolution, and later the industrial revolution.

Scots were particularly numerous in Suwalki gubernia in NE Poland, especially in the area of Dowspuda near Raczki, to such an extent that they formed their own village Scotia (which I visited in 2000), and there are still Scots surnames in the area today. One branch of my family emigrated to Edinburgh in 1868 (and others in 1870 and 1872) likely partly because of these Scots connections.

By incredible coincidence, my aunt Doris Brown was a Land Girl in the Land Army in WW2 in SW Scotland (granddaughter of Hadassah Plotnowski born in Raczki), and she was billetted with Mona Maclean, whose family were Scots Polish and established the village of Scotia near Raczki. Mona wrote a book called "Agents of Change, Scots in Poland 1800-1918" in 2000, which details their contribution.

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK


rosibal
 


shamue@...
 


r.peeters
 

Thank you all for your reactions which offer great background information. My question about the name of the places may have seemed strange because of the typing error I made. It should have showed:'New Scottia'(Canada) is approx. 5000 km away from Danzig.

My idea about the link with the Vikings could be supported by the information about the Narangasette Stone found at Rhode Island  which shows Viking runen.

Ron Peeters(NL)
 


Jill Whitehead
 

Further on this,
https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/polish-village-redicovering-its-long-forgotten-19th-century-scottish-heritage-25711
published  October 30th 2021, highlights the restoration of a Scottish cemetery in 2020/21 at Jadow near Warsaw. This Scottish village was established in about 1830/31, some years after Scotia, near Dowspuda in Suwalki Gubernia, which was set up during the years 1815-1821, as per the article at https://fr.plpedia/Dowspuda.html.

There is also a very lengthy academic discourse on the Scottish achievements at Scotia, which I have in my files.  This also mentions other Scots sites in Poland.

But Mona Mclean's book on her family's achievements at Scotia and in Poland generally are to be recommended. 

By coincidence, I am currently writing an article for Shemot, the journal of the JGSGB which includes some of this information, in relation to Jewish migration to Edinburgh in Scotland (as well as other places in UK).  

Jill Whitehead, Surrey, UK



 


Alan Cohen
 

Ron Peeters mentions the Narangasette stone as evidence for Viking travels. Please beware of so-called runestones in USA. All are problematic and there is no evidence for any of them being genuine. However it is well known and authenticated that Vikings travelled to East Europe as far south as the Black Sea. They probably were the first "Russians" and served in the Byzantine emperors' bodyguard.
Scottish trade with the Russian Empire began as early as Elizabeth Ist reign and her contacts with Tsar Ivan the Terrible..
Alan Cohen