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your thoughts/ideas/suggestions

Trudy Barch
 

According to all U.S. census records available  Nathan and Solomon Gottstein are brothers.  When the family first came to America they lived in Des Moines, Iowa.  Shortly after the father passed away, the family moved to Minneapolis, Minnesota where they spent the rest of their lives. I found the cemetery where Nathan, his wife, and Solomon are buried.   I have communicated with the cemetery office who brought to my attention that the tombstones have different father’s name.   I have spent the evening trying to figure this out  I have used all the usual sites we, genealogists look at.  But I am missing something    Your thoughts, suggestions, ideas would be appreciated.  

The father, Louis Gottstein died in 1910 in Des Moines but I was unable to find anything on his death or a cemetery for him. The mother, Sarah is on all the census records as widow and as far as I can tell never remarried.  She is buried in the Minneapolis area.  The family is from Lithuania and immigrated in 1910.

Thank you for all suggestions and helpful ideas that you might be able to give me.

Trudy Barch,  Florida

fredelfruhman
 

My immediate reaction to this is that they were cousins, and for whatever reason one of them was "adopted" by his aunt and uncle.

richard@...
 

What were the father's names on the tombstone?

I know of one case where a brother and sister seemed to have different father's names in Hebrew script on their tombstones.
But, it turned out that they were the same father. One tombstone listed the father's Yiddish name and the other one listed his Hebrew name. Itsko Leib  vs Yitzak Aryeh

Avrum Lapin
 

It is possible that the person who arranged the burial or  ordered the tombstones did not know.
I see that in my father’s uncles burial permits 

Have you found a death certificate.

Does the cemetery know who the funeral home was or the tombstone supplier

Is there a funeral home in Minneapolis that Jews patronized and do they have records

Avrum Lapin
avrum223@...


Searching Lubel(ski) from Bialystock, Rodins or Elkins from Gomel, Lapins (Lapunsky ) from Grodno 


Samuel Gelfand
 

Is there any possibility that one of the tombstones. used his
middle name instead of his first name ? In my maternal grandparents
wedding record my grandfather used his middle name.
(Marriage in Lithuania).


Sam Gelfand

jaypaulphd@...
 

Trudy,
You didn't mention the names given on each gravestone for the father. It may also be possible that one gravestone has a Yiddish name for the father (kinnui), another has a Hebrew name (which would have been their formal religious name). For example, someone known as Leib (always a possibility for someone who takes the name Louis) could have a Hebrew name of Aryeh (both meaning "lion"). Another example, using my great-grandfather and his brother: one's gravestone lists his father as "Shimon Leib," the other gives his father's name as "Shimon Yehuda." With Leib being Yiddish for Lion, which was the symbol of the tribe of Yehuda, it is possible to understand how both names might have been viewed as fitting the same father. Or Louis Gottstein may have originally had a double name (for example, Aharon Leib), and ended up with "Leib" on one gravestone and "Aharon" on the other. These alternatives should be explored as well as the possibility that Nathan and Solomon did not share a father. 
All the best,
Jay
--
Jay Paul, PhD
San Francisco CA 94117
Researching: SUMBERG (Pilvishok/Pilviskiai, Lithuania), LANGERT (Pilviskiai & elsewhere in Suwalki gubernia); KAHN (Ranstadt, Germany), GOTTLIEB (Grebenau, Germany), PAVLOVSKIY / PAVLOVSKY (Mala Antonivka, Bila Tserkiv, Vasyl’kiv, Kyiv gubernia, Ukraine), LEVITSKIY / LEVITZSKY (Yasnohorodka, Vasyl’kiv, Kyiv gubernia), KOTLER (Vistytis, Suwalki gubernia), WOLF (Austro-Hungary).

Trudy Barch
 

Thank you everyone for the very good suggestions.   I will follow up on all of them.     Trudy

Susan&David
 


I found the gravestones in Richfield, MN on Findagrave. Nathan's father is Yehuda and Sol's father is Moshe.
If you go to Ancestry and Search > Public Member Trees  for Nathan GOTTSTEIN you will find a tree where Nathan and Solomon are brothers, the father's name is Louis Moses GOTTSTEIN.
The Hebrew name often associated with Louis is Yehuda 
The Hebrew name often associated with Moses is Moshe
Nathan's stone has the first given name of his father and Sol's stone has the second given name of his father. If the person posting the tree has the correct information, they are indeed brothers.

David Rosen
Boston, MA
On 11/16/2019 9:29 PM, Trudy Barch wrote:

According to all U.S. census records available  Nathan and Solomon Gottstein are brothers.  When the family first came to America they lived in Des Moines, Iowa.  Shortly after the father passed away, the family moved to Minneapolis, Minnesota where they spent the rest of their lives. I found the cemetery where Nathan, his wife, and Solomon are buried.   I have communicated with the cemetery office who brought to my attention that the tombstones have different father’s name.   I have spent the evening trying to figure this out  I have used all the usual sites we, genealogists look at.  But I am missing something    Your thoughts, suggestions, ideas would be appreciated.  

The father, Louis Gottstein died in 1910 in Des Moines but I was unable to find anything on his death or a cemetery for him. The mother, Sarah is on all the census records as widow and as far as I can tell never remarried.  She is buried in the Minneapolis area.  The family is from Lithuania and immigrated in 1910.

Thank you for all suggestions and helpful ideas that you might be able to give me.

Trudy Barch,  Florida


bossgen_1@...
 

My grandfather had 4 brothers.  Some of them had what appears to be different names for their father on the gravestone. However, some have the 'nickname' rather than the formal name.  My grandfather and 3 of his brothers has 'son of Zev''.  The remaining brother has 'son of Velvel'.

Karen
 

Hi Trudy,
I just sent you attachments under a separate email for the findagrave.com links for Solomon, Nathan and also their mother Sarah's gravestones. It was great to hear all the discussion from others about the Hebrew translation for Louis and Moses and that Nathan used his father's first given name Louis and Sol used his father's second given name of Moses on the stones. With that information, plus the attached obituaries for Sol and Nathan that both mention Louis as their father, it seems more and more likely to be true. Plus you will see the 1973 newspaper article celebrating Louis' wife Sarah's 107th birthday (!) gives a brief family history of the family's immigration from Lithuania and life in both Des Moines and the Minneapolis areas and also talks a bit about the lives of their two sons Sol and Nathan. Looking good, just like Sarah at 107, although you'll see she only admits to 103 going on 104!

Regards,
Karen
Chicago, IL

Peggy Mosinger Freedman
 

Another possibility is that Nathan and Solomon had one mother, but different fathers.  If their mother remarried when one brother was very young, he may never have known his biological father.

Were you able to find the family in the LitvakSIG database?

Peggy Mosinger Freedman
Atlanta, GA

sarahlmeyer@...
 

When did they come?  I see some trees on Ancestry showing that Louis Moshe Gottstein died in Des Moines in 1913 and that Sarah's maiden name was Hochenberg.  Following up on this I found Nathan's gravestone saying that his father was Yehuda, but a gravestone for Sol shows Moshe v'Sarah.